average bar size

There are many ways to approach, and often the simpliest is the right answer.

• average bar size :)!

As there are 81 bars in a day, what is the average size of a bull or bear bar?  Across a week this becomes more easily definable with exception to days that become high volatility.

Note, on the open, there is an expansion of volatility so often the bars may be slightly bigger than "average bar size" for the entire day.

So, in part the answer relates to the chart you are referencing as that size is different from market to market as well as frame (1minute vs 5 minute vs 1 hour - etc).

For my own trading, after the open (ES), I often use the ATR of the last 4 bars (20 minutes) on the 5 minute chart.  

Scalping is based on average bull/bear bar size for 1:1 risk/reward.  In the ES this is often 5 point now adays but on high volatility days in 2025 we have seen this stretch quite a bit (15-20 points+ in April)!  So volatility context plays a part as well as familiarity with how the market "has been behaving lately".

Hopefully helpful and good trades to you!

Thank you for detailed explanation.

f.e. we decided to make scalp trade at bar.44 (randomly chosen).

- at the open of bar.44, ATR was around 2pts.

- but bar.36 ATR.4 value was around 5pts

- bar.40 ATR.4 value was 3pts.

- lets add another value: bar.8 after open had 6pts as ATR.4

which one we need to use ?

are you using the value of signal bar or entry bar ATR value ?

Thanks a lot in advance for further answer. much appreciated

Average bar has a few associations:

1.  With respect to how the market has behaved historically over last 1-2 weeks.  Average isn't just average "right now".  The ATR can give you a sense of how the current bar fits within the larger framework, as well as recent activity.  Is volatility building or ebbing?  Is the ATR unusually large with respect to the surrounding bars, etc.

2.  5 points is a good reference of an average bar but you will find that some days can be well outside of that.  But based on 2024+ ES market, that is why 5 points is the default standard scalp. [yes some go for 1/2 ATR -> 2:2.5 but thinking 1:1 risk:reward targets.

3.  The open has higher volatility and so there may be additional adjustments of "reasonableness" because of this.

So there is histical aspect (local short term (today) and over last 1-2 weeks.  Additionally today's open vs recent openings.

Hopefully a little more helpful and pointing towards the larger integration of "now" to recent and historical references.

Good trades to you!

When beginners dive into the trading world initially, we as beginners are waiting clear answers for any thought like any formula but nothing has clear answer here. so disappointed but fun 🙂

thanks a lot for very detailed explanation. much appreciated

It is a world of shades, and that is the issue for many.  Black and white rarely exist in the world of trading because it is a domain of shifting probabilities which can quickly change.  It also exposes the need to work with ambiguity, which is the purpose of risk management.

However, there is much widsom to Al's basic philosophy and approach (it appears simplistic and actually is very sophisticated [so much so that its precision may be overlooked for years in search of the "black and white" boundaries]:

Al Brooks:  Simply buy above a good bull bar closing at or near its high.  Sell below a good bear bar closing at or near its low.

Combining Al's widsom with an understaning of average bar size (with good bars being of average size or somewhat larger), a large range of strong solutions may be devised.

I can't "force" anyone to understand this.  I can just "point" very strongly and have them work through thousands of charts until it perhaps sinks in.

Appologies for any disappointments.  The simplicity holds the key to a robust solution across years and that is what BPA delivers (please note the length of time on my profile not for anything more than I've been working with this for not just a "blip").

I will mention that it is possible to narrow solutions to be potentially very binary in precision if one limits activities to very specific cases.  As an example only buying in strong bull trends.  Not what was asked though.  Which often leads to the next question - how to define a strong trend and Al has a large book in a 3 part series devoted to this.

I understand the question - at bar 44 the ATR is this - what should I do?  Context, average bar size, and money management allow for one to go long or short at just about any time and make money.  This is true, confounding and frustrating. . .  until one recognizes that the market trends perhaps 10-20% of the time, and that is the market moving only in 1 direction.

Good trades to you!

I did want to add this because the question was initially "what is Al doing".  From years of listening to Al, he will be familiar with how the market moves recently, and on the open.  He will have a default "beginning default" size for scalping (5 points now adays based on market activity and the size of the "average bar" which is not a doji.

Then when the market opens, he will note the size of the bars, how many points above and below a bar a scalper might be able to profit and update the default to be larger in higher volatility markets, perhaps simply doubling 5 -> 10 points.  He will update this model throughout the day seeing how the markt moves and the potential profits, all with respect to volatility and average bar size.

I think these paragraphs are more difficult to understand than what was previously written.  If you follow some of the moderators, especially Rose, these refrences are often mentioned.

Good trades to you!

" to work with ambiguity " part is major.

I read AL's all books 3 times each. maybe it took 9 months to read all. I learned a lot of things. That was very hard for me to understand. because I didn't know anything and I always wanted clear answers and clear paths. Terms was unfamiliar. Since I am engineer, I always worked with precise formulas. We have no ambiguity at our job most. f.e: we can't solve a problem with %60 possibility. My personality pushed me hard as well on trading. it was like psychological transformation.

Watching BPA course as well is very very helpful, I realized that I have understood many thing partly wrong. after videos I have concluded that I must have left " the perfection idea" behind. Videos are great and I am always calling AL Brooks when I watching the videos. What a perfect charity to us.

I saw the time on your profile.  When I talked with someone who has succeeded on trading, I have big respect. That's is so hard to do it initially. 

I took your advice. Thanks you. I have read that simplicity but I have forgotten. Thanks for remembering me

Anyone who reads my sentences: Don't chase perfection. nothing has clear answer. IF trading has clear rules, everybody would do that. As Eric Said " shifting probabilities which can quickly change. It also exposes the need to work with ambiguity, which is the purpose of risk management" describes it very clear, IF one wants clear answer on trading 🙂

Best and much appreciated